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  #61  
Old 23-03-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
I would rename the 3 Basic Elements as Space, Energy and Matter.
Force is a subset or result of Energy.
Substance and Matter are more or less the same but physicists would use the term Matter.

Anyway, are you also saying that life has to have these 3 Basic Elements?

Yes, if you may wish, to rename it as Space, Energy and Matter (just a word play of Thesaurus.)

3 basic elements? Yes, life existence needs to have these elements enveloped with conditional phenomena mulitply over time factor.
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  #62  
Old 23-03-2010, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kanden
I must say that I do not quite agree with your HORNY HORSE assembling/disassembling theory.

You are saying that when a person "dies" or "disassembles" ... parts of him can be "reincarnated" into separate and multiple beings having parts of him.

Then it cannot explain how the highly spiritual or spiritually advanced people like the Dalai Lama can control their reincarnations. Those are really "transmigration" of the soul from a body to another. Past lives can be remembered vividly especially while still young.

I think your Assembling/Disassembling theory can help explain somethings but you cannot discount 100% "transmigration" of the soul.

It also doesn't not explain how the Buddha can remember and recount his 500 or so past lives.

If my understanding is correct, transmigration of souls involve 100% transfer of a unique soul from one single body into a new & single body and into another new & single body continuously in a single point of direction over various point of time.

But perhaps this trans-migration theory can’t be logically accepted for it is awfully idealistic for this nature that is a fully occupied realm of existence engulfed with so many processes of assimilation, evolution, revolution, mutation, etc.

In Buddhism, rebirth refers to evolving consciousness or stream of consciousness of a person upon death and the consciousness arising in the new person is neither identical to, nor entirely different from, the old consciousness, but forms part of a causal continuum or stream with it. The basic cause for this persistent re-arising of personality is the abiding of consciousness in ignorance; when ignorance is uprooted, rebirth ceases.

For example, a flame is transferred from one candle to another, or a fire spreads from one field to another. In the same way that it depends on the original fire, there is a conditioned relationship between one life and the next; they are not identical but neither are they completely distinct.

And it is possible for rebirth to take place from a single source into different entities at any various point of time, just like how genetic lineage works for generations.

When we talked about controlling rebirth or reincarnation, yes, it is possible. In fact, on a personal experience, I have had even able to control the timing and location of rebirth of another individual who is dear to me. Therefore, I could verify the truth of it on a personal note. But I didn’t see how controlling of rebirth or reincarnation has any relevancy with trans-migration subject. As mentioned before, the ability of some individuals recalling their past lives largely depends on the density of inheritance from predecessors.

And to illustrate how Buddha could recall every single of his past lives, one could image the formation of black hole in the outer space or the rewinding of video recording after striking the end of tape. When one reaches full enlightenment, the elements (or precisely consciousness) would be set free from conditional phenomena and it is like a big family gathering of sort, each unit of elements would release their respective experiences gained throughout the entire cycle of lifespan before settling permanently in a platform with cessation of time.

Last edited by takso : 23-03-2010 at 05:47 PM.
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  #63  
Old 23-03-2010, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso
Why reincarnation again and again? I supposed this question has been clarified earlier.

Naturally, all happenings and activities in the realm of existence arised from the cycle influence of balance and imbalance phenomena (multiply by time factor). The basic elements would interact and un-interact with each other because of these duality circumstances.

Therefore, there isnít any specific purpose or meaning as to why it happens because it just happened due to influence of certain conditional phenomena.


It's the most basic question for humans - "WHY?"

Don't you wonder why God/Creator or the Universe works this way? With reincarnation ... all that endless cycles of suffering, birth and rebirth, assembling and disassemlbing ... what's the purpose of all that? what's the whole point? there's so much energy wasted. It's like ... might as well God have not created at all. No need for all this hullabaloo.

I'd just prefer to believe that God has a bigger purpose and plan for all of us rather just that ... "it's just how it is". Just wanted ur opinion.
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  #64  
Old 23-03-2010, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso
Yes, if you may wish, to rename it as Space, Energy and Matter (just a word play of Thesaurus.)

3 basic elements? Yes, life existence needs to have these elements enveloped with conditional phenomena mulitply over time factor.

Actually i'm thinking that Matter has to be taken out if we consider intangible beings like spirits, angels, demons, etc.

After all, quantum physics have equated mass to energy and shown that mass (matter) is ultimately a form of energy.
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  #65  
Old 23-03-2010, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso
If my understanding is correct, transmigration of souls involve 100% transfer of a unique soul from one single body into a new & single body and into another new & single body continuously in a single point of direction over various point of time.

But perhaps this trans-migration theory canít be logically accepted for it is awfully idealistic for this nature that is a fully occupied realm of existence engulfed with so many processes of assimilation, evolution, revolution, mutation, etc.


I think we both have different definition of "transmigration".

To me, the idea of reincarnation does not really involving disassembling of the soul (or 3 Basic elements as you would have it) and then an incomplete assembling whereby the components are mixed up with those elsewhere.

To me, it's just 1 soul from body to body. That's my understanding (& i believe the general understanding) of how reincarnation works.

That way it'll be easier to explain past-lives-memory, etc.

The Buddha himself have revealed the different levels of existence and told us how we can reincarnate into the different levels based on our karma. Thus the assembling/disassembling that you propose doesn't make sense. In your model, there is no 1 single soul which carries it karma with it thru its cycle of births and rebirths - moving up (& down) the levels of existence. If there is assembling/disassembling, the memory would lost and the very least diluted.

However, i believe it may explain somethings for creatures existing in lower planes of existence. I've always wondered how does the soul of an ant or bee evolve ... all the way to the soul of a human. It's like ... well, it's so small. And it's intellect and wisdom so small in comparison. Even from an energy perspective, it's a low-energy creature.

Perhaps assembling does happen with such creatures. Especially social creatures like ants and the bees. Perhaps all their souls get assembled into 1 big soul/existence when it is time for them to move up to a higher plane of existence.
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  #66  
Old 23-03-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
It's the most basic question for humans - "WHY?"

Don't you wonder why God/Creator or the Universe works this way? With reincarnation ... all that endless cycles of suffering, birth and rebirth, assembling and disassemlbing ... what's the purpose of all that? what's the whole point? there's so much energy wasted. It's like ... might as well God have not created at all. No need for all this hullabaloo.

I'd just prefer to believe that God has a bigger purpose and plan for all of us rather just that ... "it's just how it is". Just wanted ur opinion.

I strongly believe one would waste much more time and energy continue thinking of more "WHYs" than to understand it, see it and let it be. Who the hell cares where it started and when it would end?

Just live in present and live wholesomely..it is that simple and basic about life.
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  #67  
Old 23-03-2010, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by takso
Who the hell cares where it started and when it would end?


hehe, people like me do . especially when there is such a discussion which stimulates my thoughts on this subject
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  #68  
Old 23-03-2010, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
Actually i'm thinking that Matter has to be taken out if we consider intangible beings like spirits, angels, demons, etc.

After all, quantum physics have equated mass to energy and shown that mass (matter) is ultimately a form of energy.

Mass is a result of energy coordinated in the space platform.

Matter still exists in the intangible things or beings despite being invisible to our naked eye. It is a merely question of ratio quantity.
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  #69  
Old 23-03-2010, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso

When we talked about controlling rebirth or reincarnation, yes, it is possible. In fact, on a personal experience, I have had even able to control the timing and location of rebirth of another individual who is dear to me. Therefore, I could verify the truth of it on a personal note. But I didnít see how controlling of rebirth or reincarnation has any relevancy with trans-migration subject. As mentioned before, the ability of some individuals recalling their past lives largely depends on the density of inheritance from predecessors.

i'd like to read this story. care to tell? perhaps at the "reincarnation" thread (instead of this one)?
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  #70  
Old 23-03-2010, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
i'd like to read this story. care to tell? perhaps at the "reincarnation" thread (instead of this one)?

Ok, but where is reincarnation thread located? I would tell tomorrow perhaps, now it time to zzzzz...
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