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  #41  
Old 21-03-2010, 11:54 AM
kanden kanden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso

In other words, when we didn’t get the full opportunity to learn to live wholesomely in this life, the cycle of birth and re-birth would continue until it naturally ceases upon our achieving of full enlightenment (i.e. upon reaching the absolute target of living wholesomely).



There is a vast difference ... an entire ocean of separation between "living wholesomely" as generally defined vs full enlightenment.

One can "live wholesomely" - do good & not sin, etc (for countless lives). Yet without doing the necessary steps the person will not achieve enlightenment (be it full or partial).

Quote:
Originally Posted by takso
When we mention “What is the meaning of Life?” literally we are asking ourselves “Why am I here in the first place?” or “Why subject me to continuous cycle of birth and re-birth?”

Since "living wholesomely" does not stop the cycle or birth and rebirth (of samsara), it therefore does not answer the question "What is the meaning of Life?". Unless of course, you can "prove" that it does stop the rebirth cycle.

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Originally Posted by takso
For the sake of responding properly, we need to ascertain whether this question refers to general life subject in the entire realm of existence or merely refers to human subject in a specific perspective.

Human perspective is too varied. Your eg of What is the purpose of schooling or working hard at young age?” - would yield different response from different people. And there'd be the different micro and macroperspective answers to the question depending on the person.

However, any "macro" answer should be able to encompass all the "micro" answers for it to be the TRUE ANSWER. Such that, any person who questions will find the answer depending on his level of wisdom and/or intellect.

I'm not saying your answer is wrong per se. To me, it's just "micro". It doesn't and can't answer the question for me (& others like me) who want a macro answer.

That answer, like you said, should "refer to general life subject in the entire realm of existence".
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  #42  
Old 21-03-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso
I don't quite get what you are asking. Perhaps, you may query why I am so convinced with my answers.

Well, all my answers were purely based on my own insights on how things work and interrelated with each other, etc.

Basically, my inspiration derived mostly from Buddhism but personally I am not a devout practising Buddhist. And I don't take in blindly on anything written in texts, sutras, doctrines, etc. Sometimes, I discovered that it was too complicating for comprehension by a layman due to much winding details.

Therefore, I try to simplify with my version of answers for easy understanding by everyone, anyone. Nevertheless, all are welcome to share their thoughts in this thread.

I was wondering if you obtained your insights through reading and your own thinking ... vs

through meditation and contemplation ... vs

through "external sources" like channeled sources (like RA in Ipohan's post) or other super "beings" or perhaps even spiritual guides.

I'm a Buddhist myself and i must agree with you that some of the actual texts would be "beyond" laymen. Generally, those concepts can be explained simply for the layman to understand as have many books been written on Buddhism.
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  #43  
Old 21-03-2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso

But we could summarise that neither chicken nor egg was first appearing - it was their predecessor that comes first.

Yes, that's correct.

However, can you see what you've done? We have gone all over the place, beaten around the bush, used many big terms, looked up Wiki and ...

still the question has not been answered.

I must compliment however, that your posting might have however, liberated the minds of some. It would have made readers see beyond just chicken and egg. There is now a "Predecessor". And that would be a more complete, even academic view of the matter. I would expect any reasonably intellectual person who subscribe to the theory of evolution to arrive and this new ... dead end.

This question cannot be answered. However, it's a good discussion topic if merely to point out that there has to be a Predecessor (as do all things in the theory of evolution). It can be quite a Eureka moment for those who have not thought beyond the 2 subjects of chicken and egg
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  #44  
Old 21-03-2010, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipohite39
Up until now, I have one unanswered question, are aliens, you know, the ETs in the same plane as humans or higher/lower? Just a question from me that begs an answer, though I know I may not get a complete one.

Frankly speaking, we put in definition on the plane of existence purely for sustaining academic rationale. In fact, this act of categorisation has no impact on the natural behaviour or orientation at all.

And it is improper to mention whether certain existence would belong to higher or lower plane because nature in itself has no boundaries. All existence is unique respectively and there can be no justifiable comparison of each other.

Just like, we can’t claim that human plane is higher than animal/insect plane, because some humans bear much lower level characteristics than a simple insect creature.

The same case definition goes for Heaven and Hell plane of existence. We can’t literally claim that Heaven plane belongs to higher level than Hell plane because both planes are unique respectively – likewise medicine for one may be poison for others.

Therefore, for the sake of killing your curiosity, you would need to apply your wisdom to know the truth.
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  #45  
Old 21-03-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
Yes, that's correct.

However, can you see what you've done? We have gone all over the place, beaten around the bush, used many big terms, looked up Wiki and ...

still the question has not been answered.

I must compliment however, that your posting might have however, liberated the minds of some.

This question cannot be answered.

Exactly! Beating around the bush forms part of my deliverance strategies because it would train one to see beyond their framework of visions and thoughts.

But it is not true to mention that the question of "chicken and egg" has not been answered because "neither of it first" was the clear answer to it.

Just like in a primary school exam objective question, "Which one appears first - Chicken or Egg?"
A. Chicken.
B. Egg.
C. Neither of both.

You see I have chosen "C" as my answer.


Last edited by takso : 21-03-2010 at 01:03 PM.
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  #46  
Old 21-03-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
I was wondering if you obtained your insights through reading and your own thinking ... vs

through meditation and contemplation ... vs

through "external sources" like channeled sources (like RA in Ipohan's post) or other super "beings" or perhaps even spiritual guides.


I adopt this simple principle, "Knowledge as Input; Wisdom as Output".
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  #47  
Old 21-03-2010, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takso
Frankly speaking, we put in definition on the plane of existence purely for sustaining academic rationale. In fact, this act of categorisation has no impact on the natural behaviour or orientation at all.

And it is improper to mention whether certain existence would belong to higher or lower plane because nature in itself has no boundaries. All existence is unique respectively and there can be no justifiable comparison of each other.

Just like, we can’t claim that human plane is higher than animal/insect plane, because some humans bear much lower level characteristics than a simple insect creature.

The same case definition goes for Heaven and Hell plane of existence. We can’t literally claim that Heaven plane belongs to higher level than Hell plane because both planes are unique respectively – likewise medicine for one may be poison for others.

Therefore, for the sake of killing your curiosity, you would need to apply your wisdom to know the truth.

Let's look at things from another perspective. There are various ... sources that talk about the different levels of existence, from the Buddhists texts to such as the channeled communication of Ra posted by Ipohan.

Let's look for a common "denominator" to identify what actually "quantifies" the classification of the various levels ... determine the relativity of the different levels with one another. And we shall be able to find an answer.

From this answer, we can perhaps extrapolate what truly matters in life ... and consider then, the meaning of life and existence.
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  #48  
Old 21-03-2010, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
Human perspective is too varied. Your eg of What is the purpose of schooling or working hard at young age?” - would yield different response from different people. And there'd be the different micro and macroperspective answers to the question depending on the person.

However, any "macro" answer should be able to encompass all the "micro" answers for it to be the TRUE ANSWER. Such that, any person who questions will find the answer depending on his level of wisdom and/or intellect.

I'm not saying your answer is wrong per se. To me, it's just "micro". It doesn't and can't answer the question for me (& others like me) who want a macro answer.

That answer, like you said, should "refer to general life subject in the entire realm of existence".

However, I beg to differ.

Let us look at this scenario, one was asking “What is the result of more “BIRTH” in this world? – Answer : Some may say more chaos, more killings, more wars, more deceits, etc.; Others may say more hopes, more peace, more enlightenments, etc.”

But “What is the ultimate result of “BIRTH”? – Answer : There is one and only approach to it i.e. “DEATH”.


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  #49  
Old 21-03-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanden
There is a vast difference ... an entire ocean of separation between "living wholesomely" as generally defined vs full enlightenment.

One can "live wholesomely" - do good & not sin, etc (for countless lives). Yet without doing the necessary steps the person will not achieve enlightenment (be it full or partial).

Since "living wholesomely" does not stop the cycle or birth and rebirth (of samsara), it therefore does not answer the question "What is the meaning of Life?". Unless of course, you can "prove" that it does stop the rebirth cycle.

For general understanding, Buddha has never taught one to see all thoughts or actions as Holy or Sinful. Buddha only explained that “Good begets Good; Evil begets Evil” i.e. one would suffer less with more good deeds and vice versa.

For correct understanding, Buddha recognised all thoughts or actions as Wholesome or Unwholesome only.

Therefore, there was great misunderstanding among followers that Buddha asked you to do this and this; never do that and that. If you believe so then you would be deemed as "Blind Follower" or adopting the principle of "Blind Faith" which is much on the contrary to Buddhism.


Just like, it would be wholesome for parents to expose their children with both good and bad influences together. Any act of depriving the children from exposing to bad influences would only create distorted view or perception in the real society.

Subsequently, upon exposure of both good and bad influences, parents can encourage their children to use their wisdom to lead more meaningful life in the complicated society.

In short, Buddha only emphasise that one should look in all angles of matters and then apply one's wisdom in all decision making. This is what he meant by wholesome thoughts or actions.


And only with the practice of absolute wholesome thoughts and actions, can one truly taste the path of enlightenment. Without it, there would be no right path to enlightenment; merely path to delusion of subject.

For general understanding, "Enlightenment" literally means "Graduation". But Enlightenment is merely referring to mental sense; whereas Graduation is more on physical sense.

Every second, every minute, every hour, every day in our daily lives, we graduate from many events or happenings. Somehow, we had actually learned and graduated out of something, without much of realising.

In other words, everyone of us has already tasted "little" Enlightenment in one way or another and this has already become good and sweet motivation for us to elevate up and move forward until we are ready to fully liberate ourselves from this Samsara world.

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  #50  
Old 21-03-2010, 11:46 PM
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Good point on "wholesome" and "unwholesome". Do note that these are english "translation" of the original Pali word ... they are close enough i guess. My using "good" and "sin" is just the general context.

I generally prefer to use ... more common terms in a public forum. It really doesn't help normal laymen to read Buddhist jargon. Words like "duality" for eg, need some some explanation before a layman can understand. Even dictionaries can't really explain the Buddhist meaning of that term.

Anyway, my main point is this. Since your aim is to put across to the general folks, it'd be better to use simple words.

Back to "meaning of life". To me, "living wholesomely" doesn't quite cut close or explain the meaning or purpose of life. The general populations definitition of living wholesomely would probably be different from yours. Your followup posts of defining your meaning of "wholesome" makes a lot of difference. Especially the part about living till "absolute wholesome" and achieving full enlightenment.
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